Ocampo: “Frustration is when you are a victim in Darfur”

A year after the end of the conflict in Ivory Coast the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, gives an exclusive interview on the current investigations in the country. And he opens up about his work at the tribunal as he prepares to leave after nine years on the job.
By Cíntia Taylor, The Hague
He has been dubbed the world’s prosecutor: Argentine-born Luis Moreno-Ocampo is probably the most well-known face in international justice. He’s an A-level star in the judiciary system that goodwill Hollywood celebrities are eager to meet. Everyone in fact wants a minute with the prosecutor. So he is running late for our interview. “We’ll sit here,” he says assertively pointing at two chairs when we enter the meeting room. The journalist and photographer comply.
Partiality
In the first part of the interview Moreno-Ocampo gives mainly vague standard answers regarding the situation in Ivory Coast. Investigations are ongoing in the case against former president Laurent Gabgbo who is appearing in the ICC for a second time in June for a confirmation of the charges brought against him. But the prosecutor hints others could soon follow.
It’s estimated that as many as 3,000 people died in Ivory Coast’s post-election violence between December 2010 and April 2011. The conflict started after Laurent Gbagbo lost the presidential race to Alassane Ouattara. Local analysts and NGOs claim both sides committed crimes against Ivorian citizens. But so far only those perpetrated by Gabgbo’s forces are being dealt with at the ICC.
Moreno-Ocampo dismisses any criticism of partiality. “We do everything. And we are doing everything. We did Laurent Gbagbo first because the crimes committed by him were the most serious. We follow gravity in terms of selecting of the first case,” he says.
Duékoué
The most serious atrocities happened towards the end of the conflict in the western town of Duékoué, where at least 800 people were killed in March last year. The incident is also part of the ICC’s separate investigation. The prosecutor’s team has in fact recently visited that area.
The UN fears the supporters of Ouattara and Soro were the most responsible for the massacre – a belief that is also shared on the ground. But bringing the Ivorian head of state to the ICC could be a challenge for the prosecutor who relies on national forces to arrest those he wants to bring to justice. President Ouattara was key in sending Gbagbo to The Hague, but it’s unclear whether he will be as cooperative when it comes to his own league.

Prosecute the president
Moreno-Ocampo says he will prosecute whoever he needs to: “In Sudan we worked with the government. It invited us to go to Khartoum and I ended up prosecuting the president of the country. When we have to do it, we do it,” he says.
However the prosecutor does not reply directly to whether he will issue an arrest warrant for Ouattara if there is enough evidence against him. “When we are ready, I’m sorry, we will present it to the judges first. You’ll have to learn this after they make a decision.” And that could be by the end of 2012.
International African Court
During the interview Moreno-Ocampo remains calm, providing short answers, but he did seem annoyed with the question regarding criticism that the ICC is in fact an International African Court. “My duty is to investigate crimes when no one is doing it. There are crimes in Colombia but they’re prosecuting those themselves, so I should not intervene. When the criminals are from Africa and the victims are from Africa, what should you do? You have to choose your side. My side is clear: I had to investigate the crimes against the victims.”

The ICC is working 15 cases at the moment – all of them coming from the African continent. The prosecutor confesses his jurisdiction is limited. While there are countries where atrocities may be taking place, he cannot act there. He also dismisses the idea that what the ICC is doing is a new form of colonialism. “In fact, colonialism in the last 20th century was to ignore African victims. Rwandan victims were ignored; the Congo war was totally ignored. That’s colonialism,” he says.[related-articles]
Only one conviction
After nine years as the ICC’s prosecutor, Moreno-Ocampo is preparing to hand over his job to his colleague Fatou Bensouda in June. He talks proudly about how the court has grown in a decade without enjoying the support of the most powerful nation in the world – the US. “When you read reports from ten years ago no one even dreamed that we could be where we are today.” 
The ICC relies entirely on the will of national governments and their militaries to arrest its crime suspects. But in nine years he has only one conviction – Thomas Lubanga. “This court could have zero convictions and that would be okay. It’s a court of last resort. We should not intervene when the national system acts,” he says.
No frustrations
To him the most important is to promote the idea that no one goes unpunished: “Now leaders know that if they commit crimes they can be prosecuted.” But some are, in fact, still at large, like Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir or Ugandan rebel Joseph Kony. “I have no frustrations. Frustration is to be a victim in Darfur”.

Listen to the full audio interview here.